Well there was a new development in the Fediverse drama that I mentioned in my last post. I posted the link to my last post to the mastodon-admin mailing list in an attempt to bring some attention to the situation. It ended in a debate where lots of accusations were thrown, and I had the photoevidence and links to disprove everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt. In the end the moderator blocks me and calls me alt-right, which is a pretty big insult as far as I’m concerned, but with nothing to back it up. Don’t take my word for it; I will let you judge for yourself. Below is every email, every piece of evidence…
Bring one piece of evidence I’ve been a dick to anyone, just one. Lots of accusations, and for every one of themI got the screenshots to disprove. Thats cause I’m not a dick and people lie! Anyway, decide for yourself, nothing ommitted from the exchanges below.
First set of emails, initiated by me
Jeffrey Freeman firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 16:07
To: email@example.com There has been a huge disinformation campaign going on for some time now, and has managed tto huge damage to QOTO, an instance which has always strived to be a LGBTQ ally.
Please read up about it here, it includes links and photo evidence. And please try to spread the word:
Jo Jerrica Decker firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 17:16
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org This is incredibly rich coming from a man who mocks pronouns in his own bio and buddies up with raging transphobe Alex Gleason, to say nothing of the harassment campaign you just did to several admins.
Please, stop embarrassing yourself.
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 17:26
To: firstname.lastname@example.org Are you kidding me, me and Alex are known to have a huge beef and I attacked him many times.
I also dont mock pronouns, I respect everyones pronounds and use them. I also expect people to use respectful pronouns for me, the intent is not to mock its to have respect both ways, I use your pronouns, you use mine.
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 17:28
To: firstname.lastname@example.org One nice exchange out of 4 years of attacking him and being attacked and now we are pals? yea ok….
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 17:34
To: firstname.lastname@example.org Actually your right. I shouldnt have been nice to alex and my pronouns coukd be misleading. Ill block alex when i get home and update my profile to explicitly state my intention is respectful use of pronouns and not to mock). Sorry if this gave a message i did not intend.
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 17:59
To: firstname.lastname@example.org Ok ive updated my profile to clarify my pronouns are not meant to mock. Let me know if you have any other criticisms i can address.
Leonie Ain email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 18:15
Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org To: email@example.com Hi,
This is again some good old fedi drama. Okay, here’s the thing:
- snow is indeed a malicious actor. This user has been actively harassing me and my users.
- Qoto.org has some ties to Alex Gleason, but there’s no endorsement. Jeffrey doesn’t mock pronouns in his bio, it’s just a joke.
- He has also been very helpful and processed my moderation requests carefully and quickly, especially when it came to said user. That this user is active again is quite unfortunate.
Also stop being so whiny and let everyone be in peace. This is why I left Mastodon for a few weeks, I hate this whole #fediblock bullshit drama. Just process your requests and work it out, we don’t talk about the why when and how, we just have this set of rules and if someone disagrees they’re fine to defederate.
Signed Leonie (@firstname.lastname@example.org)
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 18:26
To: firstname.lastname@example.org Thank you very much for telling your side. You are greatly appreciated, and always have been.
It is ashame a Nazi is being allowed to pit LGBTQ and their allys against each other.
Lies spread quicker than the truth I’m afraid…
Jo Jerrica Decker email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 18:24
Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org To: email@example.com Protip: Don’t have ties to notorious transphobes. Don’t claim to be an LGBTQ safe space when you’re actively singing the praises to someone who represents a clear and present danger to LGBTQ folk. It’s not rocket surgery.
It’s not like these are the only examples of his hypocrisy anyway.
(Also, jokes are supposed to be funny. Nobody is laughing.)
Thor Harald Johansen firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 18:29
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org I’ve been on this mailing list for a while, and it’s been entirely about requesting technical and practical advice. It’s not clear to me whether this mailing list was ever designed for matters of content policy, but the PRECEDENCE has been that this has not been a topic, that this has not been the place for that, and that it has largely been used to exchange information about how to keep the tech running.
We are seeing more of these content policy debates being brought up on various open source forums these days. People demanding that the software authors take clear stances on hot button political issues.
Whether or not this is the right way to go, do keep in mind that this is a very new thing to those of us who have been here for a while. Most of the FOSS community has been more or less isolated from these kinds of issues since the very beginning. This is not to dismiss the viewpoint where change is needed. What I’m saying is that this is quite the big adjustment. Anyone entering this space after so many decades will have to expect some resistance, or outright rejection at times.
People with strong political agendas (outside of the software version of it, i.e. FOSS/OSS) have largely been absent so far. So it might come across as highly offensive and annoying to some parts of this scene when newcomers step in and demand change, all the while having contributed little in terms of source code.
Just a thought.
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 18:39
To: firstname.lastname@example.org As I said you are right about Alex.. historically I have been quite against him and called him out quite a few times.
But you also need to keep in mind it is easy to have the strength to publicly decry a person when other LGBTQ people have your back.. but when they all see you as the enemy and buy into a Nazi’s misinformation campaign it is a lot harder to call out those people or else I would have enemies on both sides. That said I have never endorsed him and always called him out regardless, but now is not the time for me to make enemies on both sides.
I have since updated my profile and made it clear the pronouns are not intended to mock.
If you have any other issues you feel I should address feel free to let me know.
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 18:42
To: firstname.lastname@example.org I am curious who it is you are referring to here (as a few people have commented). I cant speak about Jo but I think everyone here has contributed code. I myself have a fork of Mastodon I maintain with quite a bit of code changes, I know Koyu does as well. That said I am honestly have a bit of trouble following the logic of your email. Not saying your wrong, just a bit confused to the point is all… i may be a bit tired though.
david wolfpaw email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 18:55
Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org To: Mathias Babaiantz email@example.com Since this went out to the full list, I’ll respond, as I have avoided continuing responses to Freemo and his multiple tiers of harassment. As background, my instance, tech.lgbt, was formed in April 2017, and my mod team has been working hard to make it a space that our community wants to be involved with.
My definition of harassment includes continued, unwanted contact by individuals who it is made clear that I do not want contact from. Blocking qoto from our instance started with how their CoC did not mesh with ours, and with targeted, unwanted communication by Freemo.
As much as he can show examples of private DMs between the two of us exchanging pleasantries, and he and his users demanding receipts from me to prove any examples, I feel that continued, unwanted contact is example enough. After blocking qoto almost two years ago, renewed interest in why we had them blocked has come up with new users. We have a policy of not sharing moderation decision-making for the privacy and safety of our users. This is something that I’m sure that Freemo could understand, as he repeatedly claims that his policies are specifically to protect his LGBTQ users.
After breaking my rule and sharing some reasons for defederation with a user after repeated requests, my DM was passed up to him very quickly, and he began messaging me again within just a few minutes. While I responded to that user and the other qoto mod that contacted me, I have explicitly ignored responding directly to Freemo. His belief that lack of response proves that I am both wrong and that I made a bad decision are only proven in my eyes by repeated unwanted contact, which I’d expressed in the past, and I would determine based on repeated unresponded DMs and emails.
Freemo took screenshots of private DMs between us and shared them on Mastodon and on Twitter, leading to more harassing messages toward me. He has also used a quote-toot feature to embed my posts directly into his posts, something that Mastodon explicitly does not allow for harassment purposes, and should also be an issue considering that I have his instance blocked to avoid our content ending up there, and vice versa. His added feature for his instance invades the privacy of users who have him blocked. Technically possible/feasible or not, there is a symbolic difference when you are choosing to not respect when others do not want to communicate with you.
There are reasons that qoto.org and koyu.space are among the most blocked instances. It is telling that the admin coming to his defense in this chat is the admin of the latter.
firstname.lastname@example.org email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 19:10
Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org To: email@example.com I’ve have both qoto and koyo suspended for homophobic harassment for years. So id really take what Koyo says here with a grain of salt. They were big players in the the gab era and apparently are back to their old ways.
Calling suspension of harassment “drama” is an obvious fascist dog whistle. I’d really suggest suspending both instances.
From: Thor Harald Johansen firstname.lastname@example.org Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 8:29 AM To: email@example.com Subject: Re: [mastodon-admin] Beware, a Nazi is posing as LGBTQ and defaming instances
Jeffrey Freeman firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:21
To: email@example.com A great deal of disinformation here that needs to be addressed… and yes it is telling that all of David’s claims come without any evidence to back mos tof it up.. but lets address it one by one.
For starters The incident he talks about multiple times being asked the reason for defederation… I asked him, once, and only once. Many of his users have asked him, or others in the fediverse, and yes I do know of some of our users reaching out to him via email. I am not responsible for what other users do. If one of our users reaches out to him via email that doesnt make me a harasser, and I think that is clear to anyone here. The one case where hre refers to me responding multiple times was after HE emailed me.. In short, a user emailed him asking for information as to why we were defederated. In that email I was CC’ed. David responded with claims of harassment and included me in that response.. Only after he reached out to me in that response did I defend myself by replying to both parties of the emails. Attached you will see the email that clearly shows David emailing me, which i then followed up with responses.
The ironic part of this exchange is it was not initiated by me, in fact it was initiated by one of his users on his instance. A user on his instance was wondering why he couldnt talk to his friend on my instance. He reached out to his friend here and they thought it best to email David. The user on his own instance in the thread that david references even apologized and stood up and took blame for initiating the interaction and apologized as he didnt know david would find it unwelcome. No surprise david has since banned that user from his server.
So as is plain to see this idea of “harassment” is quite fabricated. I have the screenshot attached below showing that David emailed me first and not the other way around. Likewise I will link the countless examples of me being nice to him and over the top… One day he blocked me after a polite exchange (also posted here), but at no time did I harass him or anything even approaching it. His complete refusal to show any examples of me harassing him should be telling enough.
Thor Harald Johansen firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:21
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org This entirely skirts the issue of whether this list is for content moderation issues or not. Or, perhaps you have taken the liberty of deciding that this is subject on-topic. I personally object to the entire idea that this mailing list should venture into that territory at all. It has not had a history of doing so prior, and I was not given the impression that it was such a place when I signed up for it.
This is NOT to say that I am in favour of harassment or extremism in any way, shape, or form. These issues should MOST DEFINITELY be dealt with.
But I feel this is not the right place for it.
I doubt we will solve such problems by having a big argument about it on this relatively quiet list. I feel it will have to be dealt with out there, where the instances are run.
I don’t think anyone of us wants minority groups to be harassed. I believe we share a common goal. Some of us may be more interventionist than others in how we approach this, however.
I do not perceive this arena as a space for arguing content moderation policies, however.
Now, if the owner of this list steps in and clarifies that, then yes, it does serve that purpose too. Should that happen, I will shut up. If this is the new purpose of the list, then so be it.
Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 19:23
To: firstname.lastname@example.org I have no idea what the rules for the list are, but as you say if the rules suggest this or any discussion is unwelcome then I am happy to play ball by those rules.
Black Sheep (MoutonNoir) email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 19:22
Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org To: email@example.com Hey @all
Can you keep it technical here and drama-free ? Thanks.
Le 24 nov. 2022 à 18:20, firstname.lastname@example.org a écrit :
## Jeffrey Freeman email@example.com 24 November 2022 at 19:26 To: firstname.lastname@example.org Sure Id be happy to.. may i ask if your the admin of the list or if you know what the rules happen to be? Only asking for clarity and for future compliance to that. But otherwise happy to follow whatever rules for the list are set.
email@example.com firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:31
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org Who are you saying that too? The admin of qoto? Or the people pushing back against them?
Yay fascist dog whistles!!!!
Sent from Nine
From: “Black Sheep (MoutonNoir)” email@example.com Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 9:22 AM
Jeffrey Freeman firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:34
To: email@example.com It appeared clear he was saying it to everyone… me, you, everyone, end the drama, stop the conversation, keep it technical. I presume we will all honor his wishes now and drop it?
owl firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:24
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org hi,
having seen the discussions in the FOSS field for many years, I would not say it’s a new question but rather that diversity and minority care have been dismissed as “secondary political topics” on most channels (incl. the “higher” ones as we’ve seen with RMS himself being caught into this blind spot) with old ciswhite dudes refusing to see their own habits of dismissal and “bro” culture opaque to anyone “not like them” being a real problem (of patriarchal colonialism akin to fascism … yes, it’s huge)
but it’s also obviously a question that pervade the whole society, and with diverse acuteness depending on places …
the thing is : not seeing that there is something political in technology is actually siding with abusers and political bullies, bc no tool is truly neutral as it depends on a community of users and makers that itself has to “works it own politics”
so maybe yes some are just opening their eyes, and are slow to process … probably being conscious of this can help ease the relations, but no laziness should be tolerated imho as it’s long due …
it’s probably not here the place for tribunals, but there are things that need to be discussed and treated outside of a general public mob nameshaming
if you have ideas about this kind of process it would be cool to read … ;)
imho #fediblock should be used, with care, to help with documented cases … we are all short on time budget ;)
email@example.com firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:41
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org I mostly find it hilarious that Koyo and Qoto have told my users to commit suicide but the abusers among this group call it drama. Then the other abusers back them up. Then try to start a meta conversation about how preventing violence is the real fascism.
No one is calling out qoto for the original message which is clearly full of lies, but you are calling out the people pushing back against them. Probably because you realize you do the same bad actions as these people and you’re afraid people will realize you’re one of them.
-Tyr From: owl email@example.com Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 9:24 AM
Jeffrey Freeman firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:52
To: email@example.com Any user that told one of your users to commit suicide and was reported or brought to my attention would have been instantly suspended by me. I am very sorry you had to deal with that. Please link the said incident if for no other reason so if it did get past our moderation we can suspend such a user. We have strict rules against that and have always moderated against it.
Jeffrey Freeman firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 19:58
To: email@example.com Just checked, never has there been a single report from pettingzoo.co, screenshot proof below.
So if what you said is true you clearly made no attempt at making us aware of it so we could act…
Second email, moderator notice
Wxcafé firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 20:11
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org Hi,
As (one of) the moderator(s) for this mailing list, I’d like to clarify that I have removed posting privileges from Thor Johansen, Leonie Ain and Feffrey Freeman.
I think it’s clear that this list was made for technical information sharing first and foremost. Therefore, considering that these people are a) concern-trolling to derail the topic here, b) historically (and still) nazis, far-right, or close to people who are, and c) generally assholes, their input to this space is not wanted.
I am not available for any discussion or debate regarding this decision. I propose we close the recent topic that they created, and go back on subject.
Thank you very much.
– Clem Hertling email@example.com
Alex Dowson firstname.lastname@example.org 24 November 2022 at 20:20
Reply-To: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org Hell yeah, thanks Clem.
–Alex from dads.cool > > On Nov 24, 2022, at 1:11 PM, Wxcafé email@example.com wrote: > > Hi,